Comments on: Why don’t kids with learning disabilities get to do the cool stuff that gifted kids get to do? http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/ Elona Hartjes shares the insights, resources and practical classroom strategies that have earned her A Teacher of Distinction Award. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:39:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Elona Hartjes http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-39646 Elona Hartjes Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:50:55 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-39646 NACIM, I'd be delighted to help you, but I'm not sure what you want. Could you please give me more details.Thanks. NACIM,
I’d be delighted to help you, but I’m not sure what you want. Could you please give me more details.Thanks.

]]> By: NACIM http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-39501 NACIM Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:03:02 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-39501 I'm interesting to know more about disability peoplesort of activity I’m interesting to know more about disability peoplesort of activity

]]> By: Elona http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-16031 Elona Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:52:54 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-16031 Kathy, It's interesting to note that some teachers prefer not to teach the gifted classes because of all the IEP paper work, and the extra enrichment activities that need to happen. Yes, if you can believe it some teachers do not like teaching the special ed classes either. :) We have a lot of Chinese ELL kids at our school and they are absolutely amazed at the difference between the two systems. The stress on these kids is terrible. They are expected to get top marks yet they still haven't mastered English. Most specialize in math and sciences, not surprisingly. I've even had kids bow to me- a nice change from what I sometimes get from my other students. In other countries teachers are given respect just because they are teachers. Here every shred is earned. Kathy,
It’s interesting to note that some teachers prefer not to teach the gifted classes because of all the IEP paper work, and the extra enrichment activities that need to happen. Yes, if you can believe it some teachers do not like teaching the special ed classes either. :)

We have a lot of Chinese ELL kids at our school and they are absolutely amazed at the difference between the two systems. The stress on these kids is terrible. They are expected to get top marks yet they still haven’t mastered English. Most specialize in math and sciences, not surprisingly. I’ve even had kids bow to me- a nice change from what I sometimes get from my other students. In other countries teachers are given respect just because they are teachers. Here every shred is earned.

]]> By: Kathy Rollheiser http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-16029 Kathy Rollheiser Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:53:05 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-16029 Elona, The pressure you mention is sad on so many levels. The "gifted" program has the potential to remove dynamic and inspiring learners from their peers where they could enrich that learning environment for the betterment of all students. It also can relieve teachers from the responsibility of enriching their own instruction- it becomes the gifted teacher's job. That certainly happens in the field of learning disabilities. We have to work really hard to keep the teacher in the mindset that the "special" students are hers too, and that she is responsible for teaching them skills as well. (I'm not saying this is easy- and certainly as a special ed teacher I saw my role as one of support to help these teachers do that). I wonder if parents have a clear sense of how their children's lives would be better because of the enrichment, or if it's the social status they imagine would come with that label that they are really after. (and status for whom? The parent or child?) I wonder too how many of these private assessments go on without the understanding or desire on the part of the learner? And what if the they don't hit the mark? What sort of reaction do these children get from their parents? It sounds a little like what is happening in Japan and China right now where the pressure to to get top marks is causing children to suffer terrible stress. School for 8 and 9 hours a day with classes on Saturday for senior students! Elona,
The pressure you mention is sad on so many levels. The “gifted” program has the potential to remove dynamic and inspiring learners from their peers where they could enrich that learning environment for the betterment of all students.

It also can relieve teachers from the responsibility of enriching their own instruction- it becomes the gifted teacher’s job. That certainly happens in the field of learning disabilities. We have to work really hard to keep the teacher in the mindset that the “special” students are hers too, and that she is responsible for teaching them skills as well. (I’m not saying this is easy- and certainly as a special ed teacher I saw my role as one of support to help these teachers do that).

I wonder if parents have a clear sense of how their children’s lives would be better because of the enrichment, or if it’s the social status they imagine would come with that label that they are really after. (and status for whom? The parent or child?)

I wonder too how many of these private assessments go on without the understanding or desire on the part of the learner? And what if the they don’t hit the mark? What sort of reaction do these children get from their parents?

It sounds a little like what is happening in Japan and China right now where the pressure to to get top marks is causing children to suffer terrible stress. School for 8 and 9 hours a day with classes on Saturday for senior students!

]]> By: Elona http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-16026 Elona Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:52:46 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-16026 Kathy, I agree with you and Matthew.The classroom needs to be enriched for all students. About the whole gifted thing, at our high school here in Peel, students who are identified as gifted are in classes with their gifted peers for 1/2 the time and in regular classes the other 1/2 of the time. Some kids love the program, some hate it. It all depends on the kids. As for identifying kids who are eligible for our gifted program, the criteria changes and I'm glad that I don't do the testing any more. The identification process is very narrow and doesn't take all kinds of other intelligences like interpersonal, intrapersonal, etc into consideration. Many of the kids identified as having LDs are gifted in those areas. The gifted-LD students has anextra challenge.Many have a difficult time because of the conflicting labels "winner/loser" as the kids put it. I just want to mention that the pressure for gifted identification is so great that some parents go to outside agencies for testing so they can get the score they need for their children to get into the enriched program. Kathy,
I agree with you and Matthew.The classroom needs to be enriched for all students. About the whole gifted thing, at our high school here in Peel, students who are identified as gifted are in classes with their gifted peers for 1/2 the time and in regular classes the other 1/2 of the time. Some kids love the program, some hate it. It all depends on the kids. As for identifying kids who are eligible for our gifted program, the criteria changes and I’m glad that I don’t do the testing any more. The identification process is very narrow and doesn’t take all kinds of other intelligences like interpersonal, intrapersonal, etc into consideration. Many of the kids identified as having LDs are gifted in those areas. The gifted-LD students has anextra challenge.Many have a difficult time because of the conflicting labels “winner/loser” as the kids put it.

I just want to mention that the pressure for gifted identification is so great that some parents go to outside agencies for testing so they can get the score they need for their children to get into the enriched program.

]]> By: Kathy Rollheiser http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-16014 Kathy Rollheiser Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:56:00 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-16014 I am curious- how is gifted defined in your area? Just to point out the silliness of labels in my district up here in Canada- when I taught in the system my job entailed administering a gifted program and also a learning disabilities program. I had to do assessments, and at that time the cut off was the 98th %ile using standardized testing. (I hated doing this assessment). Imagine telling parents that their child who tested at the 96th is not gifted! The very next year they changed the criteria to 95th %ile. In essence, the next year the same child is suddenly gifted. Wow- how'd that happen? A few years later they removed criteria altogether and told the special ed team to meet with teachers and to make their own subjective decision... My own daughter was in the gifted program when she was 12-14 years old. At 15 she begged me to leave out any mention of her being gifted in my conversations with her teachers. She said the program was a waste of time, made her stand out from her peers, and that her after school activities were more than enough enrichment. Also, I find that many students with learning disabilities are also gifted- as Matthew mentioned- there are different forms of intelligence and giftedness. I think good teaching should enrich all students! I am curious- how is gifted defined in your area? Just to point out the silliness of labels in my district up here in Canada- when I taught in the system my job entailed administering a gifted program and also a learning disabilities program. I had to do assessments, and at that time the cut off was the 98th %ile using standardized testing. (I hated doing this assessment). Imagine telling parents that their child who tested at the 96th is not gifted!
The very next year they changed the criteria to 95th %ile. In essence, the next year the same child is suddenly gifted. Wow- how’d that happen? A few years later they removed criteria altogether and told the special ed team to meet with teachers and to make their own subjective decision…
My own daughter was in the gifted program when she was 12-14 years old. At 15 she begged me to leave out any mention of her being gifted in my conversations with her teachers. She said the program was a waste of time, made her stand out from her peers, and that her after school activities were more than enough enrichment.
Also, I find that many students with learning disabilities are also gifted- as Matthew mentioned- there are different forms of intelligence and giftedness. I think good teaching should enrich all students!

]]> By: Elona http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-15382 Elona Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:36:17 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-15382 Borg, Thanks for sharing your experience. I think that your students will benefit from your insights and the experiences you had in the classroom as a student yourself. Borg,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think that your students will benefit from your insights and the experiences you had in the classroom as a student yourself.

]]> By: borg http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-15372 borg Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:00:05 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-15372 as a fac of ed student in ontario who experienced some let downs after the self-contained gifted years were over, I have realized that what we had as gifted students can help all students. Today, my experiences are shared with all of my students. Rb as a fac of ed student in ontario who experienced some let downs after the self-contained gifted years were over, I have realized that what we had as gifted students can help all students. Today, my experiences are shared with all of my students.
Rb

]]> By: Elona http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-15362 Elona Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:31:08 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-15362 Mathew, Thanks to the link. I agree with you when you suggest that the gifted label has to do with status. It is no longer OK to say at-risk kids, but it's still OK to say gifted kids. One label is desirable: the other isn't. Mathew,
Thanks to the link. I agree with you when you suggest that the gifted label has to do with status.

It is no longer OK to say at-risk kids, but it’s still OK to say gifted kids. One label is desirable: the other isn’t.

]]> By: Mathew http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/comment-page-1/#comment-15361 Mathew Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:13:08 +0000 http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/12/09/why-dont-kids-with-learning-disabilities-get-to-do-the-cool-stuff-that-gifted-kids-get-to-do/#comment-15361 I wrote about the labeling of students here: http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=75 as it bothers me too. I often see technology withheld from students who are not identified as gifted and it drives me crazy. I think we certainly need to be challenging gifted students who are sitting through our classes bored. However every student is gifted in different ways (and bored at different times) and we need to be challenging everybody. I think the gifted label often has a lot more to do with status than actual instruction and sometimes does more harm than good to students' educations. I wrote about the labeling of students here: http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=75
as it bothers me too. I often see technology withheld from students who are not identified as gifted and it drives me crazy. I think we certainly need to be challenging gifted students who are sitting through our classes bored. However every student is gifted in different ways (and bored at different times) and we need to be challenging everybody. I think the gifted label often has a lot more to do with status than actual instruction and sometimes does more harm than good to students’ educations.

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